Talk:Marathon

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There needs to be a distinction made between the following:

  • Marathon, the game
  • Marathon, the ship
  • The Marathon universe

and

  • The Marathon series

These are my suggestions:

  • Marathon, the ship, as UESC Marathon
  • The Marathon universe as Marathon universe and would refer to all facts and theories within the story. The technical aspects of the game, code, and all references to Bungie would be outside of the Marathon universe.
  • The Marathon series as the Marathon trilogy and would refer to all of the technical aspects, the levels and include references to the three games and any scenarios


I will leave this here in the discussion for a while, but if I hear no responses I will just go for it.  :P MrHen


I don't think that Marathon 2: Durandal is an appropriate name for Marathon 2 because of MediaWiki's technical restrictions regarding categories. It will read that as the article Durandal in the category Marathon 2:, and that's... irritating.  :/ If, of course, there's a way around this, then go for it. That's the only thing that worries me. (And we are for the most part already using this setup.  :) ) --Ecpeterson 15:33, 22 Oct 2006 (CDT)

Actually, colons in articles names imply changes in namespaces, not categories. From the (very) little research I have undergone, categories are only those things that have links such as: [[Category:Levels]] at the end of the article. Things like "Category:" and "Talk:" imply different namespaces. Or I could be wrong...
As for the names of the games, it seems standard to refer to "Marathon 1" as "Marathon", so that seems fine. I will go look up how to create articles with colons in the names and see if that is supposed to be avoided... but I will do that later.
As it is, I will need to go and change all the links I created for Marathon 1... in the meantime, creating a redirect should suffice. MrHen 09:48, 23 Oct 2006 (CDT)

"Classic MacOS"

Objection to this edit: "versions of Macintosh System Software prior to Mac OS X" is an overly long name, and there's no actual rule saying that we have to always refer to things by their official branding. See Category:Scenarios for Marathon 1 for one precedent. --Andrew Nagy 18:11, 17 January 2008 (CST)

The only justification I can see is to make a distinction between an older version of the OS and a Classic environment running under OS X. I'm personally more bothered by the edit farther down the page; when you have a game developed largely by a bunch of programmers, starting at 1 is hardly the standard convention.  ;) --Ecpeterson 11:14, 18 January 2008 (CST)

Re: Classic MacOS

I can see why it might be a tad pedantic. I suppose it could be shortened to "pre-OS X Systems". It's just that the original Marathon will work with System 6, whilst Marathon 2 will run under System 7; so you can see why "Mac OS" would be incorrect ;-)

As for the convention in level numbering, I can understand why programmers would use 0 as the starting numbers; I'm a programmer myself so I know about array locations beginning at 0, as opposed to 1 (although Pascal does actually use this number as an initial array location), hence it would seem logical for the Bungie engineers to use 0 as a starting place. However, there are very few games – to my knowledge at least – whose levels begin at 0.

Anyway, I just thought I'd explain why I made those changes.

Peace! :-) Applemeister

I've often wondered if the numbering was intentional (a programmer/geek "in-joke" of sorts), an oversight, or a limitation. ⇔ ChristTrekker 08:17, 21 January 2008 (CST)
My personal guess is that, like most things in programming, it was done out of convenience. --Ecpeterson 03:05, 22 January 2008 (CST)
Are you claiming that the term "MacOS" didn't exist until OS 8? Discuss this. --Andrew Nagy 14:17, 22 January 2008 (CST)
The name came with version 7.6 IIRC, possibly 7.6.1. Versions before this was "Macintosh System Software version X" or just "System X" for short. This was when the Mac clones were introduced, and there need to be a way to distinguish between the Macintosh hardware (which was sold by Apple) and software (which could now run on machines from multiple companies). This way, a Umax or Power Computing clone was in no way a "Macintosh", though it ran the "Mac OS". Probably a trademark issue. Earlier references to "Mac OS" were colloquialisms; it was not formally called that by Apple until 7.6 or so. ⇔ ChristTrekker 15:05, 22 January 2008 (CST)
ChristTrekker has explained it to a tee! So just to reiterate: versions of Mac OS prior to 7.6 were called "Macintosh System Software x", or simply "System x". The first time the term "Mac OS" appeared was round about the introduction of System 7.5.2, but it was never used as the official name – so "Mac OS 7.5.2" is incorrect.
I should also point out that although "Mac OS" cannot be applied to any version of System Software earlier than 7.6, the term "System" can be used to refer to versions of Mac OS released after 7.6. So it's perfectly acceptable to call "Mac OS 9" System 9. I hope that clears things up!
BTW, ChristTrekker, you should add that info to the 68kMLA Wiki article on Mac OS ;-) Applemeister
Not really, no. That doesn't appear to deal with the main problem, which is that we need a simple, clear and concise term that means "versions of Macintosh System Software prior to Mac OS X", even if it requires explanation on a separate page to define it. --Andrew Nagy 19:53, 24 January 2008 (CST)
"pre-OS X" sort of works for me. Would a rewording to "the original game does not run on Mac OS X or later but a fan-created port called M1A1 can be used with Aleph One" be okay? It does not specifically mention that Marathon was a Mac game, would could irk some people, but that could be solved by mentioning it earlier in the article. MrHen. 12:19, 25 January 2008 (CST)
Your rephrasing looks fine, MrHen. As for the small matter of ambiguity, then that could be resolved by adding a Supported Platforms item to the info box. This could then be expanded to include the supported operating systems. So, for example, the original Marathon's supported platform and OS would be Macintosh and System 6.0.8 - Mac OS 9.2.2, respectively. You could also mention that Mac OS 10.x is supported under the Aleph One conversion. Applemeister

new universe

Since it was the very first scenario, it was technically introducing a new universe. ☺ But Doy is right because this is not the same sense we mean new for everything else. ⇔ ChristTrekker 14:15, 6 February 2008 (CST)

No, I'm fine with it saying "new universe", it's just that the template was sticking it in the "non-Bungie universe" category, and this is wrong. You can fix up the template in that respect if you want(: Doy 14:19, 6 February 2008 (CST)
The usage was inconsistent. The intended effect is for categorization as it currently is, where new==non-Bungie. Labelling Marathon 1 with new universe on the technicality mentioned above did not fit with that. ⇔ ChristTrekker 14:51, 6 February 2008 (CST)
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